老總言談﹕IBM放眼全球
薩
謬爾•帕米薩諾(Samuel J. Palmisano)擔任國際商業機器公司(IBM)老板快有6個年頭了。雖然他對公司將業務重心調整到軟件和服務上的做法感到滿意﹐但並不是總能得到股市的響應。帕米薩諾拋棄了IBM的個人電腦業務﹐斥資逾百億美元用於軟件收購﹐並將公司的業務重點放在國際市場以及他所稱的“基礎設施”上﹐即供大公司和政府使用的軟件、服務和電腦。
帕 米薩諾在擔任IBM日本區主管時曾走遍整個亞洲。上週他在IBM總部就該公司在發展中國家和地區的發展戰略接受了《華爾街日報》(Wall Street Journal)記者的採訪。他透露﹐IBM正在對公司結構進行改造﹐以便於更大程度地滿足發展中國家的需要。目前發展中國家市場對該公司銷售額的貢獻率 為21%。IBM將在美洲（以巴西為基地）、中東、非洲、東歐和亞洲成立新的團隊。以下是此次採訪的摘要﹕
《華爾街日報》（以下簡稱WSJ）﹕你為何要創建這些新團隊﹖
帕米薩諾﹕這些團隊將完全獨立於公司的現有團隊﹐因此不必擔心德國、日本或是美國部門所存在問題。公司準備在未來3年內為此投資16億美元﹐屆時我們將為這些團隊培養出本地化帶頭人。
WSJ﹕發展中市場在IBM未來發展中的重要性如何﹖
帕米薩諾﹕公司挑選出了50個未來有望發展壯大的小市場。這或許可以解釋﹐為何在目前的經濟環境下本公司對市場現狀的看法與其他公司不同。在美國之外還有一片廣闊的天地﹐促進其成長的不僅是美國進口市場。
WSJ﹕是什麼原因促使你更重視這些市場﹖
帕米薩諾﹕在IT泡沫破裂後﹐我們認為全球經濟一體化是大勢所趨。亞洲和發展中經濟體是全世界成長最快的市場﹐而且這些國家的IT業發展速度令人驚奇地超過了其國內生產總值(GDP)增速。
WSJ﹕你在一開始是看重個人電腦業務嗎﹖
帕米薩諾﹕IBM的業務架構早在四五年前就開始從個人電腦相關產品上向外轉移﹐因為個人電腦在當時已明顯呈現日落西山之勢﹐而如今更是走到了盡頭﹐取而代之的是手機。實際上手機在娛樂、小額貸款和其他方面已經取代了個人電腦。
WSJ﹕你如何判斷在一個國家開展業務的時機是否已經成熟﹖
帕米薩諾﹕其他人往往只重視GDP數字的高低。而在數字的背後﹐是老百姓開始使用信用卡﹐購買手機和汽車。關鍵在於要密切關注消費群的發展變化。
WSJ﹕既然IBM的產品並非直接面向消費者﹐為何你會如此積極地瞭解消費者的動向﹖
帕米薩諾﹕儘管IBM的業務對象是基礎設施、後勤中心、銀行系統、電話帳單和呼叫中心。但只有在有利可圖而不是利潤微薄的地區才有發展。
WSJ﹕你首先是將政府和公用事業作為顧客嗎﹖
帕米薩諾﹕其實所有國家的模式都是相同的﹐他們要建立銀行系統﹐要建設通訊基礎設施。然後是高速公路、航運等交通基礎設施。
WSJ﹕接下來呢﹖
帕米薩諾﹕由於政府稅收基數不夠大﹐也不能橫徵暴斂。於是就不得不開始私有化﹐銀行和電話公司開始私有化﹐政府從中收回了資金﹐然後在投入到重大基礎建設項目上。
WSJ﹕IBM是如何在這些國家開展業務的﹖
帕米薩諾﹕首先要及早進入市場並建立好關係。當他們急需尋找合作夥伴時﹐你應該雪中送炭。因為當情況變得越來越好時﹐所有人都會蜂擁而至。
WSJ﹕為了建立關係還需要做哪些工作﹖
帕米薩諾﹕首先需要有技術熟練工。所以說IBM要為教育系統的建設出力。公司將在越南﹐或是保加利亞﹐又或是印度尼西亞創造一種將服務作為一門科學的課程。之所以這樣做是因為公司需要一個人才基礎﹐而所在國又希望能夠提高本國人口的技能水平。
WSJ﹕還有其他因素會影響到關係的建立嗎﹖
帕米薩諾﹕如果想要成為一家全球性的實體﹐就要避免被視為一家外國跨國公司。
WSJ﹕如果IBM先幫助一家國有電話公司進行基礎建設﹐後又與一家與之競爭的移動通訊公司合作﹐這是否會引起矛盾﹖
帕米薩諾﹕不會的。大家都相安無事。例如在印度﹐IBM為每一家印度電訊公司提供外包服務。而在中國﹐似乎沒有哪一家銀行的後勤部門看不到IBM產品的身影。
WSJ﹕這些系統是否仍然非常落後﹖
帕米薩諾﹕上海或北京都已經是最先進的﹐可以說是全世界所能見到的最現代化的基礎數據中心。這些系統的業務量將達到全球最大金融服務公司的10倍﹐因為有數以十億計的人要開戶和使用自動櫃員機。
WSJ﹕IBM如何挖掘本地人才﹖
帕米薩諾﹕公 司高層會到學校或者重要的政府崗位挖掘最傑出的人才。在俄羅斯﹐主管業務的就是位很出色的人。他便走遍了各所優秀的學校做這樣的工作。在公司進入印度市場 的早期﹐聘用的都是生活在新加坡或者美國的印度人。而在中國則採用自願者的方式﹐例如IBM在中國的實驗室就聘請那些家在中國大陸並會說中文的人。
WSJ﹕你們會安排IBM在美國或歐洲的雇員前往發展中市場工作嗎﹖
帕米薩諾﹕在財力許可的範圍內我們會這樣做﹐因為你想把自己的控制體系延伸到那些地方﹐不想讓當地自搞一套控制體系。
WSJ﹕很多人擔心全球化會減少美國的就業機會以及美國人的薪酬﹐這種擔心是合理的嗎﹖
帕米薩諾﹕全球化實際上是個大好機會。為什麼不對它加以利用呢﹖引領全球經濟的是美國。美國有很多好學校﹐有發達的資本市場﹐美國的社會體制很適應全球化。
WSJ﹕有人會說﹐如果你幫助越南或南非建立它們自己的教育體系﹐就會使美國喪失就業機會。
帕米薩諾﹕我認為我們真的需要為美國教育多做些事。IBM推出了一些面向美國的培訓項目﹐並將提供相應的資金﹐如果你想學一些未來所必須的技能﹐可以向我們的這些培訓項目申請學費。
WSJ﹕你能舉出一個IBM在當地的業務正迅速增長的中小國家嗎﹖
帕米薩諾﹕我 們在埃及的業務增長神速。IBM在埃及有一個巨大的軟件實驗室。它為IBM開發軟件組件和中間件。它同時也為我們在全球各地的客戶工作﹐你知道﹐對埃及來 說這就意味著出口。我們在埃及的業務正在以兩位數增長﹐不是嗎﹖埃及是中東地區人口最多的國家﹐該國政府正在致力於實現埃及經濟的現代化。
William M. Bulkeley
Spinning a Global Plan
Nearing his sixth anniversary as the boss of International Business Machines Corp., Samuel J. Palmisano is happy about the way he has repositioned the company -- even if the stock market hasn't always shared his enthusiasm.
Mr. Palmisano has shed IBM's personal-computer business, spent more than $10 billion on software acquisitions and focused on global markets and what he calls 'infrastructure' -- the software, services and computers that power big business and government.
The chief executive, who traveled broadly in Asia when he headed IBM Japan, talked with The Wall Street Journal about IBM's growth strategy in developing economies last week at IBM headquarters here. He disclosed that IBM is reorganizing to tailor its structure more to the needs of these developing countries, which account for 21% of its overall sales. It will create new developing-markets groups for the Americas, based in Brazil; for the Middle East, Africa and Eastern Europe; and for Asia. Excerpts follow:
WSJ: Why do you need to create the new divisions?
Mr. Palmisano: They're going to be completely separated [from the existing groups] so that they don't get traded off against a problem in Germany, or Japan, or the United States. We've said we're going to invest $1.6 billion over three years. And then you create leaders who've lived in these markets.
WSJ: How important are developing economies to IBM's future?
Mr. Palmisano: We target 50 countries that are small today that will be big in the future. That is probably why, in this economic environment, we might have a different view of what's going on than others. There's another big world out there, and it's expanding due to other factors -- not just the U.S. import market.
WSJ: What made you start focusing more on these markets?
Mr. Palmisano: After the dot-com implosion, the big trend we saw was that global economies were going to integrate. Asia and developing economies are the fastest-growing part of the world. And the IT industry is growing dramatically faster than their GDP.
WSJ: Did you start initially by emphasizing personal computing?
Mr. Palmisano: Four or five years ago, we shifted our model out of the PC-related things, because it's pretty obvious that the PC is the past. PC's over . . . [Now] it all goes to the cellphone. The cellphone becomes actually the PC for entertainment, for microloans, for all those other things.
WSJ: How do you tell when a country is developed enough for business?
Mr. Palmisano: You always get the highlight numbers from the GDP. But underneath that, people are getting credit cards, buying cellphones, buying cars. You keep looking for the evolution of a consumer class.
WSJ: IBM doesn't sell to consumers. Why do you look at that consumer activity?
Mr. Palmisano: We do infrastructure. We do back offices. We do banking systems. We do telco billing. We do call centers. It's growth where there's good profit opportunity -- not low-margin kinds of areas.
WSJ: Are governments and utilities your initial customers?
Mr. Palmisano: [Countries] all have the same pattern: They build out a banking system and a telecommunications infrastructure. A communications infrastructure is the interstate highway, the shipping lane of the future.
WSJ: What happens next?
Mr. Palmisano: Because they don't have a big tax base, they can't go out and tax. So they have to begin to privatize. The banks and the telcos begin to become private. The governments get their piece, and they reinvest it in major infrastructure projects.
WSJ: How do you get started in these countries?
Mr. Palmisano: You need to enter early to establish relationships. You need to be there when they're looking for partners because once they become very, very successful, everybody wants to be there.
WSJ: What else do you do to build a relationship?
Mr. Palmisano: We need highly skilled people. So we say we need to help in the school systems. We'll go in and create a services-as-a-science curriculum in Vietnam, or in Bulgaria, or in Indonesia. We'll go do that because we need that skill base, and they want to enhance the skills of their population.
WSJ: Are there other elements of relationship building?
Mr. Palmisano: If you're going to be a global entity, you don't want to be viewed as a foreign multinational.
WSJ: If you build infrastructure for the state telephone company and later work for a competing wireless company, would that be a problem?
Mr. Palmisano: No. They're fine with all that. Take India. I mean, we have outsourced every Indian telecommunications company. And I can't think of a Chinese bank that we haven't done the back office for.
WSJ: Are these systems rudimentary?
Mr. Palmisano: In Shanghai or in Beijing, they are the most advanced, the most modern infrastructure data centers that you'll ever see in the world. The transaction volumes are going to be significantly bigger than the world's biggest financial-services companies by an order of magnitude -- a billion people opening accounts, using ATMs.
WSJ: How do you find local talent?
Mr. Palmisano: IBM's senior management will hire some of the top people out of the schools and the key government positions. We have a great guy who's running our Russian operations. He went to all the better schools and things like that. The early days of India, they were Indians who had lived in Singapore or the United States. In China, we asked for volunteers, like in our laboratories, who had family in mainland China and spoke Mandarin.
WSJ: Do you use American or European IBM workers anywhere?
Mr. Palmisano: We will within finance because you want to make sure you have your control systems in place. You do not want to have local control systems.
WSJ: There's a lot of worry that globalization means fewer jobs and lower pay for U.S. workers. Is that a legitimate worry?
Mr. Palmisano: It's actually a big opportunity. Why not take advantage of it? The leading nation in the global economy is the United States of America. Great schools. Great capital formation. A system that works.
WSJ: Some would say that if you're helping Vietnam or South Africa build their education systems, it takes away job opportunities from Americans.
Mr. Palmisano: There is a real issue here where I think we need to do something more [in the U.S.]. IBM announced programs where we'll match money put in a learning account, and you can apply those tuitions to get future skills that you think are necessary for you.
WSJ: Can you give an example of a smaller country where your work has expanded rapidly?
Mr. Palmisano: Egypt's growing like crazy. We have a huge software laboratory in Egypt. It's doing development for IBM: software components and middleware. At the same time, it's doing commercial work, which they would view as an export business, you know, for clients around the world. The commercial business is growing double digits, right? Egypt is one of the largest populations in the Middle East and has a government that's trying to modernize its economy.
William M. Bulkeley
Mr. Palmisano has shed IBM's personal-computer business, spent more than $10 billion on software acquisitions and focused on global markets and what he calls 'infrastructure' -- the software, services and computers that power big business and government.
The chief executive, who traveled broadly in Asia when he headed IBM Japan, talked with The Wall Street Journal about IBM's growth strategy in developing economies last week at IBM headquarters here. He disclosed that IBM is reorganizing to tailor its structure more to the needs of these developing countries, which account for 21% of its overall sales. It will create new developing-markets groups for the Americas, based in Brazil; for the Middle East, Africa and Eastern Europe; and for Asia. Excerpts follow:
WSJ: Why do you need to create the new divisions?
Mr. Palmisano: They're going to be completely separated [from the existing groups] so that they don't get traded off against a problem in Germany, or Japan, or the United States. We've said we're going to invest $1.6 billion over three years. And then you create leaders who've lived in these markets.
WSJ: How important are developing economies to IBM's future?
Mr. Palmisano: We target 50 countries that are small today that will be big in the future. That is probably why, in this economic environment, we might have a different view of what's going on than others. There's another big world out there, and it's expanding due to other factors -- not just the U.S. import market.
WSJ: What made you start focusing more on these markets?
Mr. Palmisano: After the dot-com implosion, the big trend we saw was that global economies were going to integrate. Asia and developing economies are the fastest-growing part of the world. And the IT industry is growing dramatically faster than their GDP.
WSJ: Did you start initially by emphasizing personal computing?
Mr. Palmisano: Four or five years ago, we shifted our model out of the PC-related things, because it's pretty obvious that the PC is the past. PC's over . . . [Now] it all goes to the cellphone. The cellphone becomes actually the PC for entertainment, for microloans, for all those other things.
WSJ: How do you tell when a country is developed enough for business?
Mr. Palmisano: You always get the highlight numbers from the GDP. But underneath that, people are getting credit cards, buying cellphones, buying cars. You keep looking for the evolution of a consumer class.
WSJ: IBM doesn't sell to consumers. Why do you look at that consumer activity?
Mr. Palmisano: We do infrastructure. We do back offices. We do banking systems. We do telco billing. We do call centers. It's growth where there's good profit opportunity -- not low-margin kinds of areas.
WSJ: Are governments and utilities your initial customers?
Mr. Palmisano: [Countries] all have the same pattern: They build out a banking system and a telecommunications infrastructure. A communications infrastructure is the interstate highway, the shipping lane of the future.
WSJ: What happens next?
Mr. Palmisano: Because they don't have a big tax base, they can't go out and tax. So they have to begin to privatize. The banks and the telcos begin to become private. The governments get their piece, and they reinvest it in major infrastructure projects.
WSJ: How do you get started in these countries?
Mr. Palmisano: You need to enter early to establish relationships. You need to be there when they're looking for partners because once they become very, very successful, everybody wants to be there.
WSJ: What else do you do to build a relationship?
Mr. Palmisano: We need highly skilled people. So we say we need to help in the school systems. We'll go in and create a services-as-a-science curriculum in Vietnam, or in Bulgaria, or in Indonesia. We'll go do that because we need that skill base, and they want to enhance the skills of their population.
WSJ: Are there other elements of relationship building?
Mr. Palmisano: If you're going to be a global entity, you don't want to be viewed as a foreign multinational.
WSJ: If you build infrastructure for the state telephone company and later work for a competing wireless company, would that be a problem?
Mr. Palmisano: No. They're fine with all that. Take India. I mean, we have outsourced every Indian telecommunications company. And I can't think of a Chinese bank that we haven't done the back office for.
WSJ: Are these systems rudimentary?
Mr. Palmisano: In Shanghai or in Beijing, they are the most advanced, the most modern infrastructure data centers that you'll ever see in the world. The transaction volumes are going to be significantly bigger than the world's biggest financial-services companies by an order of magnitude -- a billion people opening accounts, using ATMs.
WSJ: How do you find local talent?
Mr. Palmisano: IBM's senior management will hire some of the top people out of the schools and the key government positions. We have a great guy who's running our Russian operations. He went to all the better schools and things like that. The early days of India, they were Indians who had lived in Singapore or the United States. In China, we asked for volunteers, like in our laboratories, who had family in mainland China and spoke Mandarin.
WSJ: Do you use American or European IBM workers anywhere?
Mr. Palmisano: We will within finance because you want to make sure you have your control systems in place. You do not want to have local control systems.
WSJ: There's a lot of worry that globalization means fewer jobs and lower pay for U.S. workers. Is that a legitimate worry?
Mr. Palmisano: It's actually a big opportunity. Why not take advantage of it? The leading nation in the global economy is the United States of America. Great schools. Great capital formation. A system that works.
WSJ: Some would say that if you're helping Vietnam or South Africa build their education systems, it takes away job opportunities from Americans.
Mr. Palmisano: There is a real issue here where I think we need to do something more [in the U.S.]. IBM announced programs where we'll match money put in a learning account, and you can apply those tuitions to get future skills that you think are necessary for you.
WSJ: Can you give an example of a smaller country where your work has expanded rapidly?
Mr. Palmisano: Egypt's growing like crazy. We have a huge software laboratory in Egypt. It's doing development for IBM: software components and middleware. At the same time, it's doing commercial work, which they would view as an export business, you know, for clients around the world. The commercial business is growing double digits, right? Egypt is one of the largest populations in the Middle East and has a government that's trying to modernize its economy.
William M. Bulkeley
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